Curse

scotchild · Jun 28, 2009, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Hey guys. I know by far W/P Godmode is the best way to work D-Slash, but I mean, how often are you going to meet enemies in PvE constantly for 30 outside of HM. I was wondering if anyone had ever considered playing a conjure D-slash build. I mean, to me it would put out more damage. Put is there something I'm missing? Any answers help.

Abedeus · Jun 28, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Shatter, shatter, energy problems. You can't run Zealous or elemental. And it requires speccing into Fire Magic.

scotchild · Jun 28, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Yeah I had thought the element magic attribute might be a problem,

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 28, 2009, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Because, if you needed it, you could put out major dps. If you don't need it, then there's no loss :P

Lux Aeterna · Jun 28, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

There's almost always some sort of enchantment removal.

Widespread enchantment removal is why conjures are underused these days.

Anyway +10 or so to your damage isn't really going to help the damage output of a group very much. In pve I take more of a shutdown / support role as a warrior because my damage output, even with conjure dragon slash, is going to be small compared to discord or x2 searing flames nukers.

I stopped running conjure in pvp simply because I don't have a decent skin + enchanting staff, as well as rip enchants being present in every game.

Necromas · Jun 28, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Strength of Honor is a better alternative to conjure for most warriors anyways.

You can use whatever weapon with it you want, as long as it's a melee weapon, and it will do more damage now, +18 at 10 smiting prayers, +20 at 11. That's 20/22 extra DPS if you're using flail. It even recharges faster so when it does get removed you wont have to wait for it to recharge.

With a dragon slash build it's easy to set up your skills so you don't need to worry about the energy cost, you'll have enough energy with just 1 pip to use enraging charge or for great justice.

If you make a build that doesn't use energy at all except for strength of honor, you can maintain a second copy on a friend/hero/hench, giving them a big armor ignoring damage boost as well.

Obviously enchantment removal counters it, but if you have a hero or a human monk you can have them cast a cover enchant on you so areas where each mob only has 1 or 2 enchantment removal skills you won't have to worry, cover the initial enchantment removal and even if their removal skills recharge before the fight is over, they'll most likely just remove prot monk enchantments.

Owik Gall · Jun 28, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Strength of Honor PvE buff is a good choice over Conjures, but honestly the extra damage doesn't do a whole big deal in the long run, sadly. Good things about SoH is the recharge is quicker than conjure, it doesn't require a specific hilt attached to your sword so it's your choice of hilt, and the extra damage is better.

However, the extra damage doesn't help a whole lot. Most of the decent PvE areas will either enchant strip, or null the damage. Of course you can recast SoH, but it gets annoying when you have to do that almost every time you face each group. Further more, in areas where things get pretty difficult, especially hardmode, your damage will naturally be nulled by creatures with a lot of health and natural defense against damage.

The extra damage doesn't really help you crucially. It's just so you can bully all the weaker enemies and kill them faster. That's the problem with builds that have extra damage enchantments.

Tenebrae · Jun 28, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

Strength of Honor PvE buff is a good choice over Conjures, but honestly the extra damage doesn't do a whole big deal in the long run, sadly.

You dont know what you are talking about. Heres a tip : IAS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

However, the extra damage doesn't help a whole lot. Most of the decent PvE areas will either enchant strip, or null the damage. Of course you can recast SoH, but it gets annoying when you have to do that almost every time you face each group. Further more, in areas where things get pretty difficult, especially hardmode, your damage will naturally be nulled by creatures with a lot of health and natural defense against damage.

No , extra damage never helps lol . Most of the decent areas ? if by that you mean less than 15% yes , you are right , otherwise you are wrong.
Hard Mode creatures with lots of armor hm..... so its pretty cool that is a +damage so its armor ignoring right ? ( i guess you didnt know that ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owik Gall

The extra damage doesn't really help you crucially. It's just so you can bully all the weaker enemies and kill them faster. That's the problem with builds that have extra damage enchantments.

So i guess you are saying that LF sins and any D sux . Well its your opinion dude but sorry , is quite far from reality.

Improvavel · Jun 29, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

People generally don't use conjures because it requires an elemental damage weapon. That means no triggers of stuff like barbs and mark of pain.

In more advanced parties it also means no triggers from stuff like OoP or OoV.

Paul Dawg · Jun 29, 2009, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Owik Gall was right that strength of honor is mercilessly stripped in the harder PvE areas. I doubt he was unaware that the bonus damage is armor-ignoring. He was saying that in the long run you don't really get as much bonus damage as you expect because the enchantment is constantly being stripped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

No , extra damage never helps lol . Most of the decent areas ? if by that you mean less than 15% yes , you are right , otherwise you are wrong.
Hard Mode creatures with lots of armor hm..... so its pretty cool that is a +damage so its armor ignoring right ? ( i guess you didnt know that ).

Spike Stritter · Jun 29, 2009, 10:34 AM // 10:34

I'd say Asuran Scan is the way to go or maybe even "I Am The Strongest!" compared to conjure

_Nihilist_ · Jun 30, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

People generally don't use conjures because it requires an elemental damage weapon. That means no triggers of stuff like barbs and mark of pain.

In more advanced parties it also means no triggers from stuff like OoP or OoV.

/win

You can't use Vamp (+3 armor-ignoring lifesteal damage) or Zealous (energy gain) when you're locked in your Elemental set.

Also, have fun hitting a Ranger mob in HM with that Elemental weapon. Bonus armor vs. Elemental FTL.

qvtkc · Jun 30, 2009, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

/win

You can't use Vamp (+3 armor-ignoring lifesteal damage) or Zealous (energy gain) when you're locked in your Elemental set.

Well, a conjure does way more damage than vamp does (and you hardly rely on the lifesteal for healing...). As long as you can keep the conjure up it's all good, though I prefer I Am The Strongest. Both because it's a nice skill, and because shouting it over and over makes me feel like a good warrior

IrishX · Jun 30, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

SoH and Conjures stack. If you want pure damage, run both.

Reverend Dr · Jun 30, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

No one relies on vamp for anything more than extra damage, don't start reading into it that people are using it for heals. The extra damage of conjure won't help when you have to use elemental weapons against ranger mobs. It also will cripple your party's performance if they are using curses/blood spells that rely upon you doing physical damage.

The extra damage of conjure is not worth pigeon holing yourself to an elemental weapon.

qvtkc · Jul 01, 2009, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Nothing is ever worth pigeonholing yourself, why would you do that? But if you don't have a necro with you, like maybe you are in a pug or something, or if you are in an area with not that many ranger mobs, you can as well use conjure.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 02, 2009, 01:37 AM // 01:37

You can use Conjures, don't get me wrong, but if your party is set up well, you're not going to want to.

On top of losing out on triggering Barbs and Mark of Pain (must have physical damage, not elemental), if you have an Orders Necro their Order of Pain or Order of the Vampire isn't going to trigger (needs physical damage), which is going to be lowering your DPS by a substantial amount.

Personally, running 12+1+1 Weapon, 10+1 Strength, and 8 Elemental (or 8+1 Strength, 10 Elemental if you know the area doesn't have enemies that inflict Weakness) doesn't make much sense to me for an easily removed Conjure and gimping my team's DPS and synergy.

laksa and curry · Jul 14, 2009, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Conjure is ok but why not use use I am the strongest or asuran scan?

Hugh Manatee · Jul 14, 2009, 03:20 PM // 15:20

If i'm in an area where I know there's lots of crap weak to an element I'll run the conjure. I've seen some great numbers in Kathardax with conjure frost and with conjure fire in the norn dungeons. Not many shatters, just the occasional bat thing. Also I tend to have my guys run a few enchants anyway, so I'm covered unless I get hit with rend or gaze or said bat things.

Once had a conjure, SoH and Dwarf weapon on me..... I hurt stuff real good.